SonexBuilders.net

Posted: **Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:27 am**

Soooo ... Ken has 230 hours on his Waiex and NOW he claims to have the same issue? As they say on ESPN "COME ON MAN !!!"

If this wasn't so serious it would be hilarious! OK it is serious and it is hilarious ...

Dale
N319WF

BTW, Raven Rotorcraft & Redrives (Jeron) is developing a high quality conversion using the Honda Fit engine. Not much info yet but the photo looks very good:

Posted: **Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:27 am**

Deleting a double post

Posted: **Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:54 am**

Ken does not have a Waiex, he has a Sonex. And a very nice one at that. The Waiex sounds like it just doesn't have enough tail to handle the enormous power the Viking generates. Maybe they can rev limit the Viking for Waiex installs with the ECU?

Posted: **Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:47 am**

fastj22 wrote:Ken does not have a Waiex, he has a Sonex. And a very nice one at that. The Waiex sounds like it just doesn't have enough tail to handle the enormous power the Viking generates. Maybe they can rev limit the Viking for Waiex installs with the ECU?

My error ... you are correct, Ken's is a Sonex and not a Waiex. Now that I understand that I really can't help but wonder why Ken made the statement, "I think this is a trim thing not balance because tried putting 8 pounds on lead on the tail wheel it had no effect at all my sonex dose have the same issues"

Ken is clearly saying that his Sonex has the same alleged trim problem that Jan is claiming for the Waiex. If this is true the only thing they have in common besides an engine from a man I'll never do business with, is the motor mount by the same guy that I'll never do business with. I would think it strange that both aircraft are built out of spec in the same fashion. Seeing as how there are now 464 Sonex aircraft flying and these two are the only ones where this is a problem ...

Dale
N319WF

Posted: **Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:03 am**

Jan's latest post is even more incredible:

Viking wrote:It is not a control issue. It is a limitation of the original trim system. The origninal trim, as shown on the plans, can not cope with the 40-170 mph range, in a Waiex. Simple as that.

I tried to get factory support through the Sonex Yahoo Forum today but was blocked by Jeremy

Viking

Sonex never censor their yahoo groups, I've seen some very criticising posts, very false claims about the Sonex and sometimes even degrading and almost insulting posts go on the forum but they have never seen a need to censor anything, when discussions get out of hand or false claims about the Sonex aircraft are being made, Jeremy usually just posts a response in a very professional way...

I don't believe a word he's saying here but assume this was all true, what is he trying to achieve? Let every potential Sonex customer know they better avoid his engine as there seems to be a compatibility issue with the Sonex trim system? He'll never sell a Viking to any sonex customer again... What a business man this guy is...

Posted: **Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:08 am**

Btw, if this was true and his post did make it to the forum, I would have loved to have seen the responses that would have triggered.
Can you imagine mjb's reaction to this? :mrgreen: Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

Posted: **Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:09 am**

If Jan paid the $100 owner transfer fee to sonex, he should be entitled to the same tech support we all enjoy. However, sonex only supports two engines. Viking isn't one of them. But this isn't really a question of engine, it's a trim/rigging one. I'm sure the only advice sonex will give Jan is to keep the plane rigged per plans and look else where for the problem.

Posted: **Wed Dec 11, 2013 6:15 pm**

Ok,
Coming back on my last post, this actually sounds much more believable than the claim he was being "blocked":

Viking wrote:Jeremy wrote to explain that all are welcome for technical support from them.
The Waiex here at Viking needs to be registered with them to qualify. .
As soon as this has been done, support is available.

Viking

Indeed if he has not registered the transfer of ownership with Sonex and paid the transfer fee, he would be entitled to factory support from Sonex.

Posted: **Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:38 pm**

What I find amazing is NOT that Jan might be having an issue with trim and balance (things happen when you swap a motor), but the fact that he went to extreme measures (changing the wing incidence) before consulting Sonex about it. He should have investigated all possible options before the major surgery. And now he suggest perhaps a tail incidence change. It just tells me that a reckless approach to an problem is the standard approach. Now he has a non-standard rigged aircraft as his company demonstrator. Every Waiex customer should expect to follow him.

Posted: **Fri Dec 13, 2013 7:19 pm**

So what the heck is this now:
http://www.vikingaircraftengines.com/news.htm

The Viking Sport will be on display at the Sebring airshow. Our example is based on the Waiex airframe. Anyone with a Sonex or Waiex can convert the airplane to a Sport.
The Viking Sport has a large and roomy canopy with perfect visibility. Seating is such that the elbows are on top of the longerons, providing outstanding comfort.
The raised thrust line and Viking engine enable the sport to turn a 70" 2 bladed propeller.
Entrance to the Sport is easy with the tilt-up canopy and can be done from either side of the aircraft. Cruising speed is a solid 150 mph with the ability to pitch the prop for slower speeds to qualify under sport pilot regs.
The models are 6 footers and fit the airplane with some room to spare.
The sport kit consist of:
One Viking Engine
One firewall forward package (Includes cowlings, propeller and many other items)
Canopy and canopy hardware

More info on his forum:

vikingaircraft wrote:The Sport kit has nothing to do with the Sonex company. We are only selling the parts to individuals that have their own aircraft. Being an Experimental aircraft, and in the light of the freedom to experiment, the Sport kit was developed. It is our opinion that the kit will make a good airplane better.

vikingaircraft wrote:Yes, the thrust line of the Sport is much higher. This enables the the use of a 69-70" 2 bladed propeller. This combination is perfect for the geared engine and speed of the airplane. Also, the new thrust line will keep the nose down when adding power.

vikingaircraft wrote:The sport is 4" wider
It has a 70" propeller, up from 56"
The thrust line has been raised
The Canopy is easy to see through and the bow is gone
Entrance to the airplane is now from either side
Climb is greater
Short field performance is - shorter
Seating position is more upright
Larger instrument panel is possible
Viking Engine up front

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Viki ... opics/4760

Note the comment in bold above. "he new thrust line will keep the nose down when adding power"
After changing wing incidence, tail incidence, changing the trim system I think he's finally realized the trim issues he's experiencing with his Waiex are probably related to the non standard engine/mount/prop he hung in front of that airplane. The goal of all this it seems is raising the trust line to (possibly) overcome whatever issues he's having,
so now he's designing a complete new mount, cowling, canopy, windshield/glareshield setup, seating configuration and who knows what else to try and make this engine work on a Sonex/Waiex.
Imagine being an existing Sonex/Viking customer seeing this now...

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